Upvote criteria - Upvote pause initiated

avatar
(Edited)

Out of respect for those who think that users should not upvote their own posts, even though there is nothing wrong with upvoting your own Stories (If you don't think your 'Proof Of Brain' is good enough to upvote, should you even post it?) I will temporarily pause my own self-upvotes.

For clarity, I have been around since the very very beginning. I watched others rise and didn't really understand how it all worked, and then I worked very dilligently to earn my Hive Power for years and years, until I finally reached the modest level of Minnow with more than 500 HP. Eventually I reached around 1200 and floated there for way too long, but I have never been a big earner.

You can browse Trending to see top earning users, who consistently earn large dollar amounts on their questionable posts, some who obviously are putting in great consistent efforts, and others who are just fortunate to have large followings with big upvotes. I don't judge, everyone gets what they give and this is not a charity economy, although people can do what they like with their upvotes.

Users can power up, they can give back to the community, and I have always encouraged this. Good behavior is best, and it's no secret that users should be on their best behavior. Everything is written into the blockchain, so even those mischevious actors are writing their own tickets in the long term.

Is self-upvoting wrong? I don't think so. You earn rewards from Authoring and from Curating, and as I said before, when you write a story you should put in enough effort that it is worth at the least your own upvote. Also, your own upvote is what is 'guaranteed' meaning, even if no one else likes your posts, you can at least upvote your own post and get that half penny if you believe in your own work.

Some have different ideas, some think this built-in mechanism is unfair, because users can simply upvote their own content and get rewards. Yet I think it is more important to note what is done with those rewards once they are paid out. I could go on but this brings me directly to my next point.

As of late it has become clear that some users are 'milking' the system, earning rewards and selling the price down. The low low price is largely due to the fact that, some users DO need to sell Hive in order to pay for their costs. That tokens are sold is not a problem, but users who are willing to sell their rewards yet not willing to BUY at a higher price, is concerning to me.

At rock bottom HIVE valuation, every user on here with HBD should be converting to Hive in order to support a higher price. Maintaining a low Hive price deliberately seems irresponsible in the long term prospect of this chain. That we have allowed the price of Hive to fall below 2000 Satoshis is not only a shame, but a Disgrace. Some of us, spent BTC to buy our first Hive power in the first place, and a more realistic person would have simply kept the Bitcoin. Yet we believe in Hive, we find utility in this blockchain when so many other coins have less. We come back day after day, week after week adding our thoughts, opinions, ideas, and data to the chain. We have INVESTED and earned VESTS for our efforts, and yet some users have squandered it.

I am not here to judge, I am happy to see that users have obtained value from the chain. But what concerns me are the users who do not replenish the value they have received, and seem happy to withdrawl as much value as they can get from Hive.

It is not my intent to judge anyone, I don't think anyone should tell anyone else what they have to do, but sometimes it can be important to lay certain facts out clearly. To see a user that has withdrawn 30,000 HIVE, still asking for more money, is embarassing. You sold your stake, for a camera, for some rent, for a ticket to travel. That is all well and good, but when will you return the value to the chain? When will you add the value back that you have withdrawn?

If you use the PeakD front end, you may have noticed that a new KE stat has been added to profiles. This is extremely helpful when curating /Created as I do as much as I am able. When I was just a redfish with barely any HP, I hoped and dreamt that someone would look favorably upon my humble posts, and bless me with some upvotes. Yet now I look out across that same equal feed of new posts, and see users with KE over 1.0, over 5.0, even over 17.0, and I wonder. Will these users eat because of my upvote? Or will they just sell the Hive at the low price of 0.048 HBD and continue asking for more? A year from now, will their KE remain low, or will they power up any of the Hive they are earning? I do not want to judge too harshly, there are many around the world who are in fact eating because of the upvotes we share with them.

My KE is low, I have repeated the mantra "POWER UP!" for nearly ten years. I encourage new users and I offer my 100% upvotes to almost anyone who is willing to engage in respectful conversation with me. And in the spirit of those who might feel that the mechanism of voting for your own posts is inherently wrong, I will not upvote this post myself. I might accidentally upvote occasionally, but I will try to abstain for July. However I will lay out what you will miss out on as a result of my abstinence. I may not post as much, I might just be too busy this month anyways.

You will NOT share in the rewards that my vote offers, when you upvote my content. You will NOT recieve the Hive-Engine tokens that I have been sharing with everyone who interacts with my comments. That means No MEME, No BEE, No NEOXAG, No PAY, No LEO, No CENT, No POB, No VYB, No LIST, or COM, or CTP, or CINE, or FOODIE. I have been sprinkling users with tokens, and that may not happen this month, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make to show others that while I might not agree with the sentiment that voting for your own posts is wrong, I will pause temporarily.

Additionally, I will mention that I am generally not going to be upvoting creators that have a KE less than 1.0, nor will I be voting for anyone who does not have at least 150 HP in their account, not delegated, nor majority HP delegated away. Users who do not, as me, power up their rewards and instead immediately sell it, will not receive my upvotes. The reason is simple, I protect my Hive. I believe in guarding the value of our Hive. My Hive is worth at least 8 HBD and if you are not willing to pay 8 HBD for my HIVE then you cannot buy it. I feel very strongly about the utility of Hive, the value of our small chain, and the honest and authentic authors who dilligently compose their proof of brain here daily.

A higher price benefits all. A lower price is a shame. Are you willing to buy the HIGHER price of HIVE, or are you merely here to sell HIVE for the lowest bid whenever possible? Are you earning a little or a lot, fine and well, but are you selling your Hive? Are you powering down? Do you do it for survival? Or are you doing it for manipulation, or pure greed? I am not here to judge you for your choices, but I will not be rewarding users who are simply gaming the system, focusing on the reward pool, and judging others or distributing downvotes, policing new users who are just here to share their thoughts with the world and learn how it works. If you feel I am being harsh, understand that I am simply explaining my position. I have been around a long time, and seen many different users.

Every day I look at /Created, and I try to read through /Trending as well. When I read your posts, I try to see where you are coming from, and put myself in your shoes. I care a lot about Hive and Hivvers. We are a small and fierce group of blockchain warriors. We do not all think alike, nor do we have to, but we must start working together for the benefit of the whole chain, and not fight amongst ourselves so much. The downvotes need to chill a bit. The upvotes need to be generous, treat others as you would like to be treated. Restore your account KE to at least 1.0 or lower, so you are honestly 'giving back' to the community. At these Hive prices it is actually cheaper than ever to do so. If you have ever powered down, buy some HIVE on the market and Power Up! It's easy to do.

thisisHIVE.png

Write quality Stories each day, show us that you are a real person with hopes and dreams and love in your heart, for whoever and whatever you believe in. Upvote your own Story out of love for the users who will share in half the value of your upvote. Whether you have a little HP or a lot of HP, use your voting power to reward users who are here for the long term, and not just here to drain the value they can from the chain. Increase the value of your Hive Portfolio, and fill it with your poems and your knowledge as a message in a bottle to the future. Leave helpful comments for others and rather than criticize, try to encourage and assist others. Send them some HBD if you have it.

Help them create that idea they have been writing about, think about their Stories and consider what real human struggles they might be going through. Consider for a moment that we are all more similar than we are different. We might be a small group of Hivvers, but we are dedicated to an idea-- that we can compose and vote on great content here, every week! And maybe the real value is the friendships we make along the way. Eh?



@Darkflame



0
0
0.000
23 comments
avatar

To those who 'Give back' making Hive a better place for bloggers! 🥂🍻

!BEER

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Some have different ideas, some think this built-in mechanism is unfair, because users can simply upvote their own content and get rewards. Yet I think it is more important to note what is done with those rewards once they are paid out. I could go on but this brings me directly to my next point.

First, I have to say, thank you! For even puttin up this post. I see these things, being on the future, past, or even if I was never on Hive. Why? Because I care...

And you are right that this always depends on what people do with rewards. It's all about verification of attitude, history, and consistency. But sometimes we still get fooled... and those are the ones many of us should try to protect against.


However I will lay out what you will miss out on as a result of my abstinence. I may not post as much, I might just be too busy this month anyways.

Why? Because you can't get rewards from your upvote? Your posts are constantly getting rewards as far as I can see, not upvoting them should change anything about it, in my view.

I upvoted this with all I have, because this is the kind of thing that sparks the discussion I enjoy having.


You will NOT share in the rewards that my vote offers, when you upvote my content. You will NOT recieve the Hive-Engine tokens that I have been sharing with everyone who interacts with my comments. That means No MEME, No BEE, No NEOXAG, No PAY, No LEO, No CENT, No POB, No VYB, No LIST, or COM, or CTP, or CINE, or FOODIE. I have been sprinkling users with tokens, and that may not happen this month, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make to show others that while I might not agree with the sentiment that voting for your own posts is wrong, I will pause temporarily.

I am confused about what you mean with this one. What you mean by sharing?

Is whom upvotes your posts, the people you vote for? I don't understand the association if so... why one would have to upvote people that upvote you... if that's what you meant to say. Sorry if I am confusing stuff here, just trying to understand, in order to help.

Anyone should be able to vote for anyone without ANY thoughts about getting a vote back. If people think that should be a "good" rule/influence, then be advised that it's seen as circle voting (aka bad).

Voting your own post also does not offer more rewards to other users voting for your post (just making clear, not saying you said that...)

Fricking AWESOME post!

And besides my MEME, you are going to get exposed on the wider Hive community too.

Posted using MemeHive

0
0
0.000
avatar

My upvote gives these tokens, is what I meant to say. I vote on new created posts and users who comment on my stories mainly. I will give self-voting a break and see how it goes. !PIZZA Thanks for the support.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Ok, I didn't consider you were speaking literally from only this account.

You know you can separate things, right?

So, if you put MEME staked on darkflame.meme (example) account and vote with 0 HP with that account, then you are only voting with MEME tokens, because the rest has zero weight. It's more cumbersome in terms of work, but it's possible to separate curation of HIVE from tokens.

Just like I am doing with this account.

0
0
0.000
avatar

1 HIVE for 8 HBD? Wow, I wish I could be that optimistic these days. I would be a happy man if HIVE ever conquers back 1 HBD. Until then I am just doing what I always did since 2020, posting, commenting, upvoting. Just Hiving. ✌🏻

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yet it is not unreasonable.

image.png

8 is a bare minimum,
Hive should break above.

0
0
0.000
avatar

That was STEEM back then, right?

0
0
0.000
avatar

Yep, things were going quite well before the Fork had to happen.
I had my website hooked up to steem and everything. We are stronger now though,
Steem is just a shell of its former self. Its hardly even active last I looked.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Although Hive is a deflationary crypto, so its expected that if the amount of investment does not abruptly grow (aka no investment) then its price should decrease over time.

That does not mean people will over time have "less" value when comparing the total value in HBD (or USD) of your total tokens.

Why? Because stakers and curators also get additional inflation with their stake on the platform. So in theory (and I can also say in practice), if you are a long-term holder and curator, your total value on the platform will increase, because most of the milkers are either throwing away free tokens to you, or not understanding how less important they are becoming because the token value will keep decreasing.

Yes, I know previously I had much more in USD than now, but I also have a lot more stake on the platform that allows me to curate a lot more than before. And because the milkers will have less chances, the platform will self-balance eventually.

Question... do you play Hive games?

Posted using MemeHive

0
0
0.000
avatar

Actually read this last night, and then came back to re-read today, some of this is pretty deep, admire your standpoint! I became completely disillusioned by 'X' and Reddit and the like an came here to build, so far on my 'journey' I've run into some real standout characters!

As I'm still a bit of a newbie, every now and then I come across a post that teaches me something new and potentially key about the Hive Ecosystem and your post is no exception. I now fully understand the importance of KE, what it is what it means and how it can help to guide my interactions throughout Hive Socials, something worthy of keeping an eye on!

Also gave me the warm fuzzies when I did a little research and found out that hopefully my own KE is exactly where it should be for what i'm trying to achieve 😇

"Strong Ecosystem Alignment: The Hive community generally considers a KE ratio between 1.0 and 3.0 to be the ideal "sweet spot." Sitting at 1.35 proves the user is focused on building their governance stake rather than treating Hive purely as a short-term cash cow."

I firmly believe there is still plenty of hope for Hive, and am doubling down to get a new Community off the ground in the forseeable future with some new faces onboarded..

The 1st July HPUD badge was an easy win, but I'm hunting for more, lets see if 50x Hive Power Up on 1st August is doable 😎

Thanks for the share, every days a school day currently..
!HBIT
!PIZZA

0
0
0.000
avatar

urielkinnear, you mined 0.9 🟧 HBIT and the user you replied to (darkflame) received 0.1 HBIT on your behalf as a tip. You can receive 100% of the HBIT by replying to one of your own posts or comments. When you mine HBIT, you're also playing the Wusang: Isle of Blaq game. 🏴‍☠️ | tools | wallet | discord | community | daily <><

What's more, you found 1.0 🟡 BLAQGOLD coins as a bonus treasure token!


Your random number was 0.3332625911403264, also viewable in the Discord server, #hbit-wusang-log channel. Check for bonus treasure tokens by entering your username at a block explorer A, explorer B, or take a look at your wallet.

There is a treasure chest of bitcoin sats hidden in Wusang: Isle of Blaq. Happy treasure hunting! 😃 Read about Hivebits (HBIT) or read the story of Wusang: Isle of Blaq.

0
0
0.000
avatar

I am glad that I was helpful, thank you for taking the time to comment. Thanks for stopping by, I will keep an eye out for your stories. !PIZZA

0
0
0.000
avatar

Similarly, I practiced almost everything you preached in this posts. I am also an investor who dump in rock hard cash to buy in. Naturally, trying to maximize ROI is the first thing in my checklist. I did struggled for awhile(probably many years) to refrain myself from upvoting myself 🤣 but then in the end, when I look back into my total HP and asked myself, what's the point? Later I have participated in #ecency curator program, and beginning to discovered the beauty of "as a curator, why I shouldn't upvote myself even nobody is going to curate me?". How much my post earned, is exactly how much it deserves. It has absofuckinglutely nothing to do with another person who has 1billion HP that self upvote their post to get 1million HBD and NOT upvoting 1% of their HP towards my post. That is when I have really opened up and beginning to enjoy the journey of writing, engaging, and curating.

Additionally, I will mention that I am not going to be upvoting creators that have a KE less than 1.0,

I don't understand the part, not rewarding those who has KE below 1.0? Which means, you preferred people who withdraw their HP to Hive and subsequently took the money out of the system, then people who have been powering up(which will result in KE below 1.0)? Correct me if I'm wrong.

nor will I be voting for anyone who does not have at least 150 HP in their account, not delegated, nor majority HP delegated away.

Duly noted on the criteria and I understood I'm NOT qualified to earn your vote. I have delegated almost 80% of my hive power to communities that DO NOT have an ROI payout, neither do I post on that community everyday to earn my "entitled" upvote. And I like to play around with AI photo creator, especially the one from #ecency 🤣 so I delegate a small portion to earn me some points, so I can play with the AI photo creator on a regular basis (there goes 300 points for the picture generated in this post).

You have a good hive journey ahead. I was just very curious of your post and took the time to curate it. Keep the power up going and may the hive power be with you.

0
0
0.000
avatar
(Edited)

Below 1.0 KE is having more Hive powered up than rewards you have earned. If KE is higher than 1.0, say 17.0 that means they have withdrawn much more rewards and have not powered up as much as they have earned. It is like Golf, you want a low score. As I said its not so harsh that someone is disqualified from earning votes just because they have withdrawn Hive, it is just a general metric to assess whether someone has staked what they have earned or has not. Likewise, just because you delegate will not disqualify you either, it depends how you use your stake. I encourage everyone to have at least 150 HP powered up in their account so that they qualify for curator rewards when voting, and that each account should have a minimum real balance. If you delegate 100% of your HP then you might have trouble taking actions on chain, and your upvote power will be low. I appreciate your comment, did you mean to say that for a while you did not self upvote but then eventually did? I dont think there is anything wrong with it, but I will abstain this month, and perhaps self-upvote less often when I resume. I do understand other perspectives and it is an opportunity to spread more rewards farther. I noticed that I am earning more for curating than for authoring anyways, so perhaps I can continue to improve my voting and increase my rewards as a result. !PIZZA Thank you for stopping by, I look forward to reading your stories too. [Update; you have plenty of free HP for voting, no worries at all 😀]

0
0
0.000
avatar

No the other way round. I started with a lot of self upvote. Especially when I see 0 vote for days, I can't help it but to at least "masturbate" just so the post doesn't looked 0 🤣

And later date, when I became a community curator, I started to learn why do I save my upvotes for others. Instead of 100% self vote, I can blast 20% votes to 5 different person. Since I am a curator, the person whom received my vote is also getting community vote from #ecency.

So, I don't do self vote no more, at least for a couple of years now.

Thank you for taking the time to reply this. Keep the spirit strong and I highly encourage you to forget about self voting until you have 500k HP, maybe that time you should reconsider. Disregard of my handle KE20, it was referring to 1973 Toyota Corolla 🤣 my current KE is 0.5 if I'm not mistaken. I have invested more than I took out from the system. Proud AF.

0
0
0.000
avatar

At 500k HP it might even be considered worse in my view because at that point it has the attention of the bigger whales, which becomes even closer to my point of, "depends" for what you use your votes. If 100% of your upvotes go to the yourself its one thing, if just sometimes or for specific causes (like for example, when you post a burn post, then it does not matter much, and just signals you want to burn rewards for your stake), but if done for too long and always for burn posts, then people will start thinking you are not interested on curating, and that signals you are just interested on ROI, which means you can potentially draw all the stake afterwards. There are a multitude of reasons this can be right or wrong. And this is why it's so complicated to explain why "in general" self-upvoting is kind of Wrong... explaining this to people that understand a bit more of this, is already complex, now imagine 90% of the rest of the chain.

So, in advance of all that thought, bigger people might dislike it even more than that and start downvoting your self-upvotes in advance of that "possibility". Some don't even care... because they are not around as much... it really depends.

But I love these discussions. And really, really happy to see this sharing of opinions.

Posted using MemeHive

0
0
0.000
avatar

Thank you for the sweet reply. I'd like to agree with your disagreement on 500k self upvote. There are few bigger stake holders whom I really look up to, one of them being acidyo.(No I didn't tag him to avoid being called suspicious of shoe shining). He's one of those who doesn't self vote, neither he abuse the curation program for his own benefit. I'm saying that to encourage @darkflame to totally give up on self vote, not the other way round.

Why would I suggest perhaps 500k, we can think of self vote? I think it's perfectly natural to give yourself 1 vote for 1 post you've made in a day(despite I myself will NOT self vote, most probably). I didn't mean you can spam 10 posts and make 10 self upvote or upvoting your own comments just to make up that full 20% voting power. I still believe, quality post, engagement, and curation make the entire community function properly.

Once again, no right nor wrong. People choose how they want to vote, I choose whom I vote. I understand one day if the community doesn't like me anymore and start down voting my posts payout to 0, I knew exactly when to #getdafarkoutdahere 😂

0
0
0.000
avatar

And... 😉

Will have to upvote that comment the right way.

0
0
0.000
avatar

Por qué @acidyo y algunos selectos Hivers sí pueden auto votarse, o votar en círculos sin tener ninguna crítica o censura, pero si eso lo hace un redfish es automáticamente discriminado.

Mucha doble moral en esta "comunidad".

0
0
0.000
avatar

Es una pregunta válida, ya que creo que no hay nada de malo en votar positivamente las propias publicaciones. Entiendo las opiniones que algunos han expresado, pero sigo pensando que no se debería juzgar si alguien lo hace o no. Somos libres de elegir y no debería haber castigo por ello. Al menos este mes, votaré más por otros, pero no en mis propias publicaciones, aunque siento que me estoy perdiendo recompensas de curación por el trabajo que he realizado. Parece ser una función controvertida, pero si no está permitida, ¿por qué existe?

It's a valid question, since I believe there's nothing wrong with upvoting your own posts. I understand the opinions that some have expressed but still think that it should not be judged if someone does or does not. We are free to choose, and there should be no punishment for the action. For this month at least, I will vote for others more but not on my own posts, but I still think I am missing out on curation rewards from the work I have done. It seems to be a controversial feature, but if not allowed then why is it a feature?

0
0
0.000
avatar

Where are you seeing my selfvotes mate?

0
0
0.000