DHF should get an update
Hello, currently the hive DHF is distributting a lot of HBD (16.5k a day ((12k do @hdbstabiliser))) to a lot of various projects on hive as long as the proposal get more votes than the proposal number 1 (the return)
At the moment around 28.1 million HP are needed to fund a proposal
But basically atm if you think one of the proposal that currently get funded shouldn't get funded you can't do annything about it except not vote for it.
A basic implementation to make this better would simply be to enable downvotes on proposal, if a proposal have 1Million positive HP vote and i downvote the proposal will now only have 900K positive HP vote as easy as that.
It would add a way to say no to a funding, if we don't want this to be funded or want to stop the funding.
Something else that could be done to be sure the DHF funds are used correctly is to set up checks, in a way that we can all see how the money is used and how much work is done and then judge if the payment is too much or correct for it.
These two would reduce abuse risk and allow people to get a bit more control about what happens here, more decentralization.
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But that could cut into the incomes of the top 20. Never going to happen.
Let's at least dream about it then
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What happens if someone with a large amount of HP, like @blocktrades and @blocktrades.com, says, "Vote for our proposal, or we'll downvote your proposal and guarantee you'll never get the 28.1 million HP to pass your proposal"?
It doesn't have to be existing accounts with Hive Power. Perhaps just someone who won't invest in HBD savings because "a 20% APR for inactive money isn't fair," but 10 million active HP downvoting would be active and thus "fair."
You don't need a downvote
hmm your right, but there should be a way to express your against a proposal though.
In that case the account who can make your proposal never happen, can make there proposal pass easily too.
I'm sorry but i didn't understand that part well i think, you mean a 10m HP downvote isn't fair ?
Anyway i was just posting thoughts to know some general opinion of people, but yeah your almost the only person to read the post and comment so yeah.
Yeah your right whales are a probleme for the downvotes, but for the upvotes too.
I've never made a proposal, so I don't know if the DHF allows the proposal maker to vote for their own project. Lasseehlers upvotes his posts but didn't upvote his proposal, so there is a possibility that isn't allowed. I'll need to find out how that works before I can knowledgeably respond to that point.
What I think I might be able to say is that making a proposal may fall under contract law. When making a proposal, you are promising to carry out a plan if and when you receive the requested funds. Maybe something can be done under civil law if someone doesn't follow through. Perhaps a proposal could be made for a fund to get legal assistance. If someone with a large enough amount of HP can pass their proposal and is also given the power to downvote, they could foil attempts for Hive to assemble a paid legal team to go after them.
You're right I could have been more clear. My bad.
So, similar to what was allegedly done by Justin Sun during the hostiule takeover. I don't think it was ever 100% proven that Justin Sun collaborated with exchanges to vote in new steem witnesses. I believe that did happen. Regardless, what if someone like Justin Sun or several rich entities wanted to make it so every DHF proposal made from now on never passes? It would be a simple brute force attack by just staking enough HP to cancel out all the upvotes for any new propoasal to impede the progress of our blockchain.
I am just beginning to learn blockchain development. I am sure if you presented this to someone with much more experience and who knows far more they would ask even more probing questions. I am not claiming the DHF proposal system is perfect. It could be better but whatever is done first needs to stand up to scrutiny. As a beginner the one thing I know for sure is that every change made to a blockchain is given a lot of examination and as many aspects as possible are considered.
Upvotes being just as problematic as downvotes seems to negate the whole purpose of the system. Maybe it's the "lesser of two evils" thing but I can't think of as many scenarios in which upvoting can be done maliciously as downvoting.
When you have millions of HP using another account to create the DHF isn't the main barrier.
It might, or might not never heard about that tbh.
Well this would need a lot of HP, not sure it would even be possible to find enough hive on the market to suddently brute force. And even if highly immoral technically cutting the financement of all the hive project isn't illegal by unvoting all the proposal it's just voting for what ever you wish to be accepted. As long as you have the HP you have the right to vote/unvote what you want, unlike the witness thing with justin you don't earn from cutting the dhf pay.
Not really related but, do you wanna become a blockchain dev like making your own chain or upgrading other chains or why are you learning ?
No, I have no interest in starting my own blockchain. I want to focus on the Hive blockchain. Like you I have a few ideas of my own that I want to prototype and open source.
That's cool, like what if you don't mind sharing ?
Sure, I care share what I would like to do.
One of the things I want to be doing sooner rather than later is building upon a steemit project. Back in 2016 @bitcalm announced Steemduino. I am working toward knowing how to adapt it for Hive. Then I guess a second Arduino library would need to be created for second layer Hive-Engine. Right now I am just studying the first layer developer tutorials.
Some kind of Hive smartphone application for my holovision.mobi domain. Maybe an augmented reality using NFTs as markers. Maybe a marketplace for Hive users to share and sell virtual 3D models. This would be a much longer term plan so I haven't thought as much about it yet.
I am also learning some Godot game engine so I can create a game or two for Hive. Eventually I want to create an NFT-based political game in which the player starts in the local election level and works their way up the political ladder in a fictional country's government.
Those idea are genius, love the political games.
If you do posts about these project mention me, i wanna follow these projects
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When @lasseehlers tried twice to scam the DHF out of more than 60,000 HBD I didn't care whether or not the DHF proposal had a downvote button. I just did some old fashion cyber activism. I made a post explaining why I believed it was the worst proposal ever. Then I replied to any account that voted for the scam asking if they understood exactly what they were voting for and linked my post. . I replied to the @proposalalert post about the attempted DHF proposal scam.
Based on the attempted DHF proposal scams by @lasseehlers it seems obvious to me that the current system isn't broken. Only one or two small accounts voted support. Mostly because they just vote for every proposal. The vast majority take DHF proposals seriously. They look at the proposal. If the proposal post is hidden due to an account's low reputation score they'll immediatelty reject it and not vote because of that huge red flag.
I rember about that, i was downvoting the comment of lasseehlers too.
Well lasseehlers can't really be compared to a regular user of hive since a lot of people on hive know how bad he is for hive, but like let's imagine a bad users create a dhf proposal and start getting votes, he does the post correctly and have some reputation points if for some reason he get enough HP to fund his proposal how do you counter this ?
In this scenario is it that the bad user is relatively new to Hive or is it a user that has been around for awhile but goes rogue? It depends on exactly what I am supposed to be imagining.
but i get what you mean in your two comments
If you feel strongly about this you could make your own DHF proposal to fund a DAO that would allow both upvotes and downvotes. Or you could find some other way to raise the funds for such a Hive DAO. The Hive DHF doesn't have a monopoly to prevent someone from trying to do that.
Have you seen what is being funded and for how much? I disagree.
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